Read Andrew Rodney or Jeff Schewe for Color Management and Printing
Printing from Lightroom not good..?
Printing from Lightroom not good..?
Software: Lightroom Classic 10.2
Canon Print Studio Pro: ii.two.5
Printer: Canon Pixma Pro 10S
Display: BenQ PD2720U: Adobe RGB
Ascertainment: Some years ago, I noticed a difference in output when printing from Lightroom 6 and Photoshop CS6. The latter seemed to produce more accurate results.
Now printing from Lightroom Classic 10.2, I've been a petty underwhelmed at the results from the Canon Pro 10S. The colour saturation and contrast are only lacking. The zip is lost from the screen image.
In frustration I tried using Catechism'south proprietary impress software, Impress Studio Pro. It's pretty basic and express in it'southward functions - no borders, no identity plate and lot of buggering about positioning images as you want. However...all of a sudden my prints resemble exactly what I meet on the BenQ. Colours are properly saturated, retain relative contrast and accurate in terms of colour temperature.
My suspicions from years earlier have proved right. I don't know what LR does, but it merely does not preserve color accurateness thru to print.
I'm shooting in Adobe RGB, processing in Adobe RGB , using a BenQ Adobe RGB calibrated display and printing in relative colorimetric. Lightroom has a particular problem with magenta. No matter how you lot twiddle information technology, magenta turns to maroon brown.
Wondering if whatever other souls have encountered this effect?
Rich42 • Senior Member • Posts: 2,537
Re: Press from Lightroom not skilful..?
ii
manbitescat wrote:
Software: Lightroom Archetype 10.2
Catechism Impress Studio Pro: 2.2.five
Printer: Canon Pixma Pro 10S
Display: BenQ PD2720U: Adobe RGB
Observation: Some years ago, I noticed a departure in output when printing from Lightroom 6 and Photoshop CS6. The latter seemed to produce more accurate results.
Now printing from Lightroom Archetype 10.ii, I've been a trivial underwhelmed at the results from the Catechism Pro 10S. The colour saturation and dissimilarity are just defective. The zip is lost from the screen paradigm.
In frustration I tried using Canon's proprietary print software, Impress Studio Pro. It's pretty basic and limited in it'due south functions - no borders, no identity plate and lot of buggering near positioning images as you lot desire. All the same...all of a sudden my prints resemble exactly what I run into on the BenQ. Colours are properly saturated, retain relative dissimilarity and accurate in terms of colour temperature.
My suspicions from years earlier take proved correct. I don't know what LR does, but it but does non preserve colour accuracy thru to print.
LR does cypher to modify "color accuracy thru to print."
I'chiliad shooting in Adobe RGB, processing in Adobe RGB , using a BenQ Adobe RGB calibrated brandish and printing in relative colorimetric. Lightroom has a detail problem with magenta. No affair how you twiddle it, magenta turns to maroon brown.
No it doesn't.
Wondering if any other souls have encountered this event?
The issues you are describing are archetype examples of calibration and profiling problems, of both the monitor and paper profile.
You say your BenQ is "calibrated." How? What method are you using for ICC profiles for the paper yous're press to?
And lastly, fifty-fifty if y'all're correctly calibrated, if the colors you're trying to print are, in fact, well out of gamut, you could still get the kind of issues y'all're having.
Rich
Charles2 • Veteran Member • Posts: 6,669
Re: Printing from Lightroom not practiced..?
Does Canon Impress Studio Pro use the same paper/printer ICC contour that you apply from LR?
Incidentally, you don't shoot in Adobe RGB. Y'all might have the camera set to generate its .jpg in Adobe RGB – merely you presumably process the raw file.
Hilifer • Senior Member • Posts: 1,268
Re: Printing from Lightroom not practiced..?
I'1000 printing from LR Classic on a MacBook Pro (Big Sur Os) + BenQ PD3200U to a Pro-1000. When I'g printing to Canon paper, I'll permit the printer manage the color. (I fix sRGB in camera and in LR.) When I print to Cherry River or Canson paper, I use their ICC profiles. The output regularly meets or exceeds my expectations.
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Re: Printing from Lightroom not good..?
Charles2 wrote:
Does Canon Print Studio Pro use the same paper/printer ICC profile that you use from LR?
Incidentally, you don't shoot in Adobe RGB. Yous might accept the camera set to generate its .jpg in Adobe RGB – only y'all presumably process the raw file.
Well the colour infinite is set up to Adobe RGB in photographic camera, I guess y'all're right in that is simply written to the jpeg, but in that location's stuff I don't empathise here.
The RAW file is converted to a DNG by import. If the DNG is opened in Photoshop, the default colour contour is Adobe RGB - I assumed this was because the PS colour settings are European Pre-Press three, and then the working RGB space is Adobe RGB.
You lot're telling me in that location is no colour profile written to the RAW/DNG. However if the PS colour management is set to Off - the DNG nevertheless opens with Adobe RGB equally the source infinite?At what bespeak is that profile ascribed? Almost disruptive.
I'm using Canson Baryta Photographique II and Canson Platine papers and profiles downloaded from Canson. The Canon print software uses exactly the same ICC profiles and ColorSync.
Every bit far as display scale is concerned, I abandoned my SpyderX Pro when I bought the BenQ. BenQ use a piece of software, Display Pilot, which switches profiles on the fly, from a list of a dozen display profiles, including Adobe RGB, depending on what awarding you might be using the display for, animation, 3D rendering etc.
The ICC files are actually stored as role of the Display Pilot software, rather than with ColorSync/ICC profiles and are pre-calibrated. They tin can be re-fix periodically, but attempting to re-calibrate them leads to some seriously weird shxt. I know, I tried. The SpyderX Pro does not work with the BenQ PD2720U.
In any example, what I'm describing is not an farthermost colour issue. The renderings from Light Room are not wildly wrong, they just lack saturation and relative dissimilarity - no zippo, no pop, call it what y'all like. Magenta is the worst example. The Catechism software produces an excellent and accurate rendering. Perhaps I've got something wrong somewhere, but I'1000 foxed...
Re: Printing from Lightroom not proficient..?
Printing from LR works very good for me (using Epson though). I'd say information technology'southward something wrong with your workflow (colour management/profiles).
Rand 47 • Senior Member • Posts: ane,500
Re: Printing from Lightroom not good..?
2
manbitescat wrote:
Charles2 wrote:
Does Canon Print Studio Pro employ the same newspaper/printer ICC profile that you utilize from LR?
Incidentally, you don't shoot in Adobe RGB. You might have the camera set to generate its .jpg in Adobe RGB – merely you presumably procedure the raw file.
Well the colour space is set up to Adobe RGB in camera, I guess yous're right in that is only written to the jpeg, merely in that location'south stuff I don't sympathize hither.
The RAW file is converted to a DNG past import. If the DNG is opened in Photoshop, the default color contour is Adobe RGB - I assumed this was because the PS color settings are European Pre-Press 3, so the working RGB space is Adobe RGB.
You're telling me there is no colour profile written to the RAW/DNG. All the same if the PS color direction is set to Off - the DNG still opens with Adobe RGB every bit the source space?At what point is that profile ascribed? Nigh confusing.
I'chiliad using Canson Baryta Photographique II and Canson Platine papers and profiles downloaded from Canson. The Canon print software uses exactly the same ICC profiles and ColorSync.
As far as display scale is concerned, I abandoned my SpyderX Pro when I bought the BenQ. BenQ employ a piece of software, Display Airplane pilot, which switches profiles on the wing, from a listing of a dozen brandish profiles, including Adobe RGB, depending on what application yous might be using the display for, animation, 3D rendering etc.
The ICC files are really stored as function of the Display Pilot software, rather than with ColorSync/ICC profiles and are pre-calibrated. They can exist re-set up periodically, but attempting to re-calibrate them leads to some seriously weird shxt. I know, I tried. The SpyderX Pro does not work with the BenQ PD2720U.
In whatever case, what I'thou describing is not an farthermost colour issue. The renderings from Light Room are not wildly wrong, they but lack saturation and relative dissimilarity - no zip, no pop, phone call it what y'all like. Magenta is the worst case. The Canon software produces an excellent and accurate rendering. Maybe I've got something wrong somewhere, just I'm foxed...
It seems to me that your understanding of color direction is missing some important pieces. Hence your bug. Lightroom Classic's print module is excellent. The soft proofing in LrC is very well implemented. I guarantee y'all that Lightroom isn't where the trouble has its roots.
The problems are complex and not easily solved in a forum such every bit this. Get Jeff Schewe's volume, "The Digital Print." Well written, comprehensive.
Rand
Re: Printing from Lightroom not good..?
Rand 47 wrote:
Get Jeff Schewe'south book, "The Digital Print." Well written, comprehensive.
Yes, I'm going to do that. Cheers. This confuses me further re ProPhoto for editing...
How Lightroom Classic manages color
Lightroom Archetype primarily uses the Adobe RGB color infinite to display colors. The Adobe RGB gamut includes almost of the colors that digital cameras can capture as well as some printable colors (cyans and dejection, in item) that can't be defined using the smaller, web-friendly sRGB color space.
Lightroom Classic uses Adobe RGB:
- for previews in the Library, Map, Book, Slideshow, Print, and Spider web modules
- when printing in Draft style
- in exported PDF slideshows and uploaded web galleries
- when you ship a book to Blurb.com (If you consign books every bit PDF or JPEG from the Book module, nevertheless, you lot can choose sRGB or a unlike color profile.)
- for photos uploaded to Facebook and other photo-sharing sites using the Publish Services panel
In the Develop module, by default Lightroom Classic CC displays previews using the ProPhoto RGB color space. ProPhoto RGB contains all of the colors that digital cameras can capture, making it an excellent pick for editing images. In the Develop module, y'all can too use the Soft Proofing panel to preview how colour looks nether various color-managed printing conditions.
Using a soft proof to preview the final output of an image in Lightroom Archetype
A. Image is edited in the Develop module. B. Image'south colour values are translated to the color space of chosen print weather condition C. Lightroom Classic displays proof profile's interpretation of the image'due south color values.
Rand 47 • Senior Member • Posts: 1,500
Re: Press from Lightroom not proficient..?
1
manbitescat wrote:
Rand 47 wrote:
Get Jeff Schewe's book, "The Digital Print." Well written, comprehensive.
Yep, I'thou going to do that. Thanks. This confuses me further re ProPhoto for editing...
How Lightroom Classic manages color
Lightroom Archetype primarily uses the Adobe RGB color space to brandish colors. The Adobe RGB gamut includes about of the colors that digital cameras tin can capture too as some printable colors (cyans and blues, in particular) that tin can't be divers using the smaller, web-friendly sRGB color space.
Lightroom Classic uses Adobe RGB:
- for previews in the Library, Map, Volume, Slideshow, Print, and Web modules
- when press in Draft mode
- in exported PDF slideshows and uploaded web galleries
- when you ship a volume to Blurb.com (If you export books every bit PDF or JPEG from the Volume module, all the same, you can choose sRGB or a different color profile.)
- for photos uploaded to Facebook and other photo-sharing sites using the Publish Services panel
In the Develop module, by default Lightroom Classic CC displays previews using the ProPhoto RGB colour space. ProPhoto RGB contains all of the colors that digital cameras can capture, making it an excellent selection for editing images. In the Develop module, you tin also use the Soft Proofing panel to preview how color looks under diverse color-managed press conditions.
Using a soft proof to preview the final output of an image in Lightroom Classic
A. Image is edited in the Develop module. B. Epitome's color values are translated to the color space of chosen print conditions C. Lightroom Classic displays proof profile's interpretation of the paradigm's color values.
Right. Lightroom's working color space is "Melissa RGB" which is more or less ProPhotoRGB with a linear gamut. Lightroom "displays" in roughly Adobe RGB 1998. But the bodily brandish colors are dependent on the gamut of your monitor. If you lot accept a expert quality wide gamut monitor, you'll be able to "see" somewhere close (99%+) of Adobe RGB. The fact is, your files can incorporate more color information than you can run across on fifty-fifty a really good broad gamut monitor. AND, (bold the colors are in the file) yous tin can impress more colors than you lot can see in Adobe RGB. A programme like ColorThink Pro can diagram this for you. This is dependent once more on the gamut of the ink gear up of your printer and the gamut of the newspaper you're printing on. This is why soft proofing is valuable. It allows yous to estimate how the image you run into on the monitor will "look" when printed to a particular printer / newspaper combination (ICC profiles) and allow you to tweak the soft proof file so that you end up with a skillful screen to impress friction match.
As to your confusion to a higher place "directly" - that's what ICC printer/newspaper profiles are "all about" - that is to say - translating from what yous run across on the screen display to needed printer data to become "the equivalent" representation of the image on paper.
For at present, I recommend a couple of things. First, if yous want to learn colour management you need to be willing to "stick it out" until the calorie-free dawns. It really isn't hard one time you have your head around it. 2d, stop worrying yourself almost what seems very mysterious until you lot've read Jeff's book. At that place is too a ton of excellent color management information on Andrew Rodney's web site: digitaldog.cyberspace
For the other folk on the forum here, I "know" that my description is only an approximation of the whole story - trying to go on in in the realm of "understandable" for the OP. If there's a better "short mode" to 'splain it, go for information technology!
Rand
headmj • Contributing Member • Posts: 662
Re: Printing from Lightroom non adept..?
As far as brandish scale is concerned, I abased my SpyderX Pro when I bought the BenQ. BenQ use a slice of software, Display Airplane pilot, which switches profiles on the fly, from a list of a dozen brandish profiles, including Adobe RGB, depending on what awarding you lot might exist using the display for, animation, 3D rendering etc.
The ICC files are really stored every bit part of the Display Pilot software, rather than with ColorSync/ICC profiles and are pre-calibrated. They can be re-set periodically, only attempting to re-calibrate them leads to some seriously weird shxt. I know, I tried. The SpyderX Pro does not work with the BenQ PD2720U.
The action you are describing above doe snot sound right. How practice you lot know what the monitor is doing? Where did the monitor profiles come from? do they get passed to the operating system? The last matter I want is the monitor making decisions on my color management.
Mike.
Charles2 • Veteran Member • Posts: six,669
Re: Printing from Lightroom non good..?
1
Rand 47 wrote:
For the other folk on the forum here, I "know" that my description is merely an approximation of the whole story - trying to go along in in the realm of "understandable" for the OP. If there's a better "short way" to 'splain it, go for it!
2d that. The OP can go the nuts in clear form at
https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/color-management-printing.htm
Rich42 • Senior Member • Posts: 2,537
Re: Printing from Lightroom not practiced..?
2
Similar and so many others who don't understand modern Color Management, yous are both way overthinking this procedure, making it overly complicated and ignoring the most basic of principles.
It's non that difficult, and, yep it tin can be explained in a forum such as this. I would never dissuade someone from getting Jeff Schewe's book. And learning from information technology. Only for the problem yous are having, it's like swatting a fly with a sledge hammer.
Here are some general instructions.
1. You lot must have a properly calibrated/profiled monitor. Nil else works unless you can be sure the colors you see on the monitor reasonably/pleasingly/accurately represent the colors in your images. You must use a monitor profile currently generated from the monitor. Your BenQ software gives you a large selection of profiles to allow the monitor to mimic certain color spaces to some caste for the purpose only of approximation. You lot must non apply whatsoever of those profiles to view and impress your images. That won't work.
In the list you have, at that place is probably one that represented the monitor when it left the factory. I, and plain, you, accept no thought which one that is. In any case, y'all demand to generate a current i. This is a necessary chore with some frequency to assure colour accurateness. Nigh people detect, with high quality monitors, that after repeat profiling at (option one) daily, weekly, monthly intervals, they get very lilliputian change after a while and become comfortable with profiling less ofttimes. Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer chance.
I'one thousand not surprised the Spyder yous used did non give good results. Whatever of the current X-Rite products will work. (I have no association with X-Rite).
ii. Stop trying to sympathise the various color gamuts that LR uses to brandish images. That's irrelevant to your current issue.
3. A RAW file, or a DNG created from a RAW file has no inherent color profile. You are getting confused by the fact that when you lot open up a file in Photoshop from RAW/DNG, y'all run into that it has a profile. That's either because you accept Photoshop'southward Color Settings set to do that or yous are not aware that you lot have prepare your RAW conversion program to process the file into a particular color infinite with that associated ICC profile.
I piece of work in ACR, not LR. But they utilise the same underlying software to convert from RAW. I have ACR set to output RAW files in 16 bits in ProPhoto RGB. The other possible options are Adobe RGB, Color Friction match RGB and sRGB.
A niggling off the trail . . .
We could go lost in a bewildering trail of give-and-take nearly which color space the RAW converter should exist set up to output to. I use ProPhoto RGB exclusively. Yous can utilise that, too. Many would debate with me. However, you'll get the least statement about using Adobe RGB as the output color infinite. Pick any one of them. For your current trouble, the option of RAW conversion color infinite is not the effect. sRGB will suffice if all you e'er want to do is prepare images for the Internet and be satisfied that your viewing audience has just older, express-gamut monitors. It'southward the colour space with the smallest gamut and will probably lop off gamut that your camera records.
. . .
When I click "Open Image" in ACR, the image opens in PS. If I and then go to the Edit Menu and select "Catechumen to Profile . . ." I will get the Convert to Profile screen that shows the embedded profile as the "Source Profile." That'south where you can check to see how your RAW conversion procedure is performing. This screen is where you catechumen to a dissimilar profile if yous ever want to do that. For now I but mention it as a place to ostend the contour that is embedded.
4. Colour Managed printing from LR or PS then is so almost automatic. Bold there is an epitome with an embedded ICC contour loaded (ProPhoto, etc), invoke the Print dialog, select, Photoshop Manages Colors, select the correct Printer/Paper ICC profile, select a Rendering Intent (I recommend Relative Colorimetric for most images, otherwise Perceptual), Bank check the box for Blackness Point Compensation and . . . Impress.
Rich
kyrrel • New Member • Posts: 1
Re: Printing from Lightroom not good..?
Thank you! Having the printer managing the colours. Using the profile through LR having me going crazy. So MUCH MAGENTA! But I'm yet looking for a gear up though.
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